I agree to the uninsured statement. However, what percent of illegal immigrants are utilizing Medi-cal dollars as "insured" patients. Has the Welfare/ Medi-cal system been consistent over the years?? Does this affect our taxes????????? Kris Conzoner-Steuter CIMC 08/16/06 4:32 PM

Mr. Lott, I have referenced this article in a story for Migra Matters - Progressive Immigration Reform. here I would like to republish it on some of the larger Blogs that recieve national attention. But before doing so, would like to know if I can have permission to reprint it in its entirety with the proper citation. I feel that the nuances of your article cannot be conveyed through edited quotes, and doing so would be a disservive to the meaning of your article. Please feel free to read the article as posted at Migra Matters before making your decission. Thank you for your time Duke1676 Duke1676 MMPIR 08/17/06 11:32 AM

jim lott is lying, he is decieving fact and fiction, his claimed stats about illegal aliens are lies, his non reference to aliens that are legal or illegal in this country should prove that statements he talks about should be seen through clear glass, not clouded or dark decieving glass. illegal aliens at home depot can not provide billons of tax dollars, thier anchor babies use the public schools, hospitals, food stamps, section 8 housing, insurances, jail/ prison systems, ect! they cost everyone everything. jim lott does he/she know what the word [illegal] means? shawn steel california/washington d.c. watchdog for taxpayers 09/01/06 11:46 A

One point everyone seems to be missing is that, yes, everyone is treated at an ER room regardless of their status, the difference comes in though, that the billing department WILL collect payment from the legal citizen, while the illegals are NOT traced and billed. Cherie 09/02/06 5:02 AM

Truth is no one has to go without insurace. while we may not cover everyone with the best coverage in the world,.... Some is better than "None"! www.iabnew.com/griley G. Riley A.B.P. 09/05/06 9:58 PM

I strongly agree with comments from Kris and Shawn regarding Mr Lotts portrayal of these "stastics" and hte context in which they must be viewed. He states "only 20% of the 2 billion dollars (in ED visit only, NOT Surgery, hospital stays, not outpatient referral visits to specialists) Further , what is included is missed is the "insured" patients, in this study. They are illegal immmigrants on either end of the age spectrum, children or the aged who qualify for taxpayer funded medi-cal. That's right their "insurance" is a thinly veiled title of describing taxpayer funded. money form your our paychecks. These "anchor babies" actually account for a huge drain....healthcare expenses are but one small piece of the pie. Magnify the nubers above , which really are a very small subset of healthcare ( as only "uninsured" from ED visits alone by illegal immigrants were included. Aside from the abuse of the medi-cal program public schooling housing,welfare.....all at the expense of hardworking americans, with student loan payments to pay. We didn't obtain our training free of charge, even though we are forced to give it away free of charge. There is a big difference in treating the uninsured in California, who sadly are young professionals, TAXPAYING individuals. These people have contributed and due to some misfortune need to utilize the resources they have contributed to throught thier lives......this cannot be said about illegal immmigrants who do not pay ordinary income tax! And don't site social security revenue. That does not begin to compare to reven ue generated by the goverment through our system of income tax. This problem is quite literally affecting each and everyone of us, not to mention the millions of californians directly invlolved in healthcare. As one of my collegues put it" you wouldn't dine and dash in a restaurant, that's considered petty theft"...think about it. amanda hyatt 10/29/06 10:14 PM

Jim, 20% is huge!! Any corporation, any small business, any family who could lower their costs by 20% would consider that to be a miracle. In business, if you can lower your overall costs by 5% that is a dream come true. 20% in many cases is the differences between profitability and loss, solvency and bankruptcy in business. Please don't diminish the effect an extra 20% in costs caused by illegal immigration has on the California healthcare system. It's HUGE!! For the record I have seen legitimate figures much higher then that. Your figure is conservative by any moderate on the issue. In comparison, the official estimate of illegal aliens in this country is 12 million. The figure is really between 12 and 20 million. When amnesty was given in 1986 it was estimated that 1.5 million illegal immigrants would apply. When all was said and done the final tally was 3 million. So please at least admit your figure could be much higher. Finally your use of the pro illegal term "undocumented" diminishes your neutrality in the debate. "Undocumented" is a nuanced term created by the pro illegal immigration movement. It is used to humanize the issue and sway public opinion in favor of those in favor of comprehensive reform. The legal term "illegal alien" has be used for decades as the legitimate phrase used to describe foreigners in our country illegally. May I as why you use this new term? Thank you. Tom 11/01/06 7:29 AM

-- I find all the comments to be very interesting. I do agree with Mr. Lott and the fact that undocumented/illegal immigrants are not the problem to the US health care system. So many people perfer to assume that illegals are taking over the country. Yeah we see them out running the streets, Please. If blame is to be put on any one we should be blaming ourselves. In a society were the communities needs matter less than our own. Most immigrants families whether legal or not fear the use of State and Federal services. They don't want to be labeled a burden and have their future citizenship revoked. In an article from the American Journal of Public Health it was found that of non-citizen immigrants less than 5% of them recieved Medicare or Medicaid. Their is so much debat at the moment regarding the use of Fed and State medical programs for the undocumented that it's rediculous. We should be focused on legislation that will better our county. It's hard to say in what direction we should move, like Universal Health coverage. But something has to change soon, a movement needs to come were the focus is to better the Health of the nation and forget about ourselves for a minute so that progress can be made. Kristine HCA 502 Kristine Nodarse- Hernandez 11/20/06 7:40 PM

i agree 100% with tom and amanda and couldnt agree more. if you think illegal immigration isnt a problem then you are blind or rich off them. :) lisa mcc 12/08/06 12:32 PM

As a long-time former executive and lobbyist at a state medical association, I can smell gamed numbers. Your numbers are gamed. Usually it is the trial lawyers who concoct silly stories, but I'm not surprised to see it coming from a medical policy organization that likely has some indirect level of dependence on illegal aliens to fund its operations. 1) Every increase in the uninsured population begets more uninsured people because cost shifting forces insurers to raise the cost of plans. Every increase in plan costs price-forces some businesses to reduce or eliminate coverage. So each new "illegal alien," which is the legal term for it, who receives uncompensated care puts other hard working Americans at risk of being either uninsured or underinsured. 2) If I or someone in my family is uninsured and presents at an emergency room for care, I'm going to get that bill and either pay it or have my credit ruined. Not so for the illegal alien, who can simply disappear or assume a new identity for a couple hundred bucks. 3) Particularly in rural areas, hospital accountants make decisions every day on whether to invest in some new device or treatment or the employment of a new specialist. If cost shifting makes such innovations unavailable, then everyone using the hospital suffers, and it will show in poorer outcomes for patients in both the short and long terms. I'm very sure that every single day, somewhere in America there is a child denied access to a lifesaving treatment because it was cost shifted away. Every day an American child ends up with a poorer health outcome because some device or some specialist was made unavailable thanks to cost shifting. And since illegal aliens contribute to cost shifting, even if it is only as low as 20% in your region, which I doubt to be the case, then illegal aliens are causing harm to Americans when they are granted access to our healthcare dollars. The only difference between them and us is that American citizens who have not broken the law don't get their sob stories reported by the mainstream media. I know that if my child is ever ill and I learn that better treatment options are being left off the table because some bureaucrat was forced to make them unavailable because some diabetic foreigner who never had a checkup in his life gobbled up a couple million in ICU funds for his uncompensated treatment of some diabetic coma or amputation or heart condition, I'd be furious. And I'd be blaming people like you for making excuses for him. B.E. Brockett 12/17/06 8:44 PM

Our rath goes to the illegals themselves, the government for allowing this to happen, the greedy employers and to people like you who make excuses for illegal behavior. Americans WANT employer enforcement, we WANT the laws on the books enforced, we WANT illegals held accountable for their actions. We WANT all of this. The argument, why don't you go after employers, or the govt., etc. is an argument that we re-direct our focus on another area. In fact, we WANT ALL of these taken care of so that our country is once again a law-abiding place with rules enforced fairly. NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW! We all share in the costs. Is that too much to ask?! l. mcdaniel 12/22/06 5:41 AM

More Americans are murdered every day by illegal undocumented lawbreakers than soldiers die in iraq daily.my family shed blood for this country these law breakers from mexico don't have any right to any of the services in this country.So let's get the illegals out and bring down the murder rete that is a growing problem. jeffrey causey 12/24/06 8:37 AM

Dear Diane-- You say you do not agree with my figures about Southern California. That suggests that you may have some idea of what the correct figures might be? Sitting from where you are in Florida, what would you say are the correct figures for Southern California hospitals? The way to fix this problem, BTW, is to seal our borders and to prosecute Americans who employ illegals, thereby removing a big incentive for most illegal immigration. Jim Lott 12/29/06 10:43 AM

Mr. Lott: I am not unsympathetic to your thesis, but I am curious about the source of your statistics. Which peer-reviewed journals did they come from, and what were the key assumptions that informed them? Wagging a finger about private versions of the facts is fine, but only as long as your version is demonstrably better. Several of the nurses who commented claim that 20% is low. Perhaps this is because in their locality, 20% *is* low. You could both be right; your stats are for the state as a whole. Is it possible that in some locations, the picture is significantly different? If so, would that change your argument in any way? Daniel Hardman 01/15/07 12:09 PM

Whether is be .01% or 20%, why must I pay for it??? I didn't allow illegals in the country against the wishes of the citizens. I didn't vote for those who choose to ignore enforcing immigration laws, I don't benefit in profits by employing illegals, but I have to pay for it in health care cost (while I drown in my own) school taxes to educate children who shouldn't be here and incarceration costs for the crime waves by illegals. They bring disease. Many of these illegals do not have the hygiene to work in food industry. We never had the food contaminations we see now in meat and vegetables. Ted Kennedy would like to force us to open our homes to help illegals. I wonder how many he houses in the bedrooms next to his. And forcing Americans to cater to them in Spanish is insulting. Send them all home ...and their anchor babies too. Susan Robbins 03/05/07 8:05 AM

Mr. Lott, thank you for your interesting report. The responses you got should come as no surprise, as many who are faced by the facts that undocumented immigrants are not the cause of all our woe's do not like to hear the facts. They want to have reason to blame illegal immigrants, and will twist and turn every nook and cranny to make it so. I've had the pleasure and displeasure to debate this topic with others, and I have come to find that most closures in California had really nothing to do with undocumented immigrants. While, they did play a role, their role was very miniscule compared to other factors such as law suites, upgrades, etc. I would also advice you to notice how many times a person mentions Mexico, Mexicans, or Spanish. I do not recall reading in your article any mention of race or nationality, yet people continuously wish to bring race into this. I'm sure the common response would be that it is only because Mexicans make up the highest number of undocumented workers, but that would equate the same as me calling every anti-illegal a white supremacist just because most Minutemen and anti-illegal group are made up of a majority of white supremacists. Thank you and keep up the good work. http://www.alipac.net/bored/in... iamme www.galleon.org 03/30/07 7:35 AM

As said by many above- you can not just look at medical cost- it is the food stamps, section8, welfare etc. -the more babies, the more money. I would not feel I was being taken avantage of- but people use this as a way of life- not just for help to get on their feet. They have no intention of getting a job-We support them, as we will their children and their children. As one patient told me, "I don't have to work". And it is not just illegal immigrants it is some legal ones as well. MANY of the doctors at the hospital I work at have parents on some kid of "income" from the goverment and Medical. I understand they want their family here with them in this country-but then they should have to pay for them. I pay for my mom when she can't afford her medications or walker. I don't ask other tax payers to pay for it. ewofcc 04/13/07 8:50 AM

Dear Fisher-- I appreciate and respect your position, but I'm having a hard time relating it to the subject of my post, which was to set the record straight about the true impact of illegals on our hospitals. Of late, the demagogues and idealogues would have everyone believe that access to hospitals by illegals is what is bringing down the system, and that cannot be supported by the facts. Truth, Fisher, has a power of its own. We should use it at every opportunity. On the problem you raise, though, I do offer the following solution: Let's enforce existing laws by prosecuting every American who gives an illegal alien a job. If we did this, most of this problem would go away. Then again, we would need to be prepared to pay a whole lot more for our fruits and vegetables. Anyway, thank you for your contribution to my blog. --Jim Lott Jim Lott HASC 04/22/07 11:39 AM

I do not believe this is a real fact. How the Hospital can able to determine who's Illegal or Legal? Before you attend to any Hospital you must provide your Healthcare Insurance, social security, personal information, right? I had seen our own Citizens been attended in Hospitals and never paying those bills. Are we discussing who's didn't paying those bills or contributed to that debt or who's illegal? Lets shows the real facts. These are not real facts on this statement that shows 20% of that cost are being used by Undocumented Inmigrants. Michael http://proinmigrant.blogspot.com/ 05/01/07 6:51 AM

Maybe he should make a point of going to an emergency room and waiting around for 5 or more hours, boy does one get a good idea about who uses emergency rms. as doctors offices. I have made aa point of paying attention, and illegal aliens are abusing our hospitals and bringing them down. I have worked in the medical field foe 20 years, stop lying and pandering to people who don't belong here. Arlene 10/12/07 11:35 PM

In response to the article (Focusing on Healthcare of Illegal Immigrants Draws Attention away from the Real Problem) too many illegal immigrants are overwhelming the healthcare system and driving up the cost is not true. "Vulnerable populations" such as "infants, youth, women, indigenous people, the very poor, the elderly and disabled do not have health care as well and are a part of the equation. In a recent poll that expressed that the majority thought that illegal immigrants were 50 percent responsible or more for the uninsured treated in hospitals leaves one with the question of its validity and wonder which portion of the population did this statistic come from. The fact of the matter is that the most predictive factors in defining access to quality health care are income, zip code and race. White America for the most part have been the main part of the population who have lived in the better areas where health care has thrived at its peak. Depending on where you live will have a strong influence of the type of health services you will receive, anyway. When looking at the history of the United State concerning the availability of health care, it needs to be pointed out that undocumented immigrants have truly not been the first in line for anything. Income is a factor as well on the determination of who will receive health care, the statistics reveal blacks have the lowest median household income at 31.905, compared to the median for Latinos at 33,820, Asians at 47,631 and whites at 53,975. Although these household figures are not impressive the availability leans toward white America in being able to receive and have access to heath and all of its added benefits. The country with the most developed knowledge base is the US, and with all the advanced technology racial hidden biases exist influencing the choices made by scientist and industry as well. This has a trickle down affect to the front line of provided health care, lets look at some examples of this fact. On the front lines Whites are three times as likely to undergo bypass surgery that non-whites. Non-White patients seeking admission to nursing homes experience greater delays before placement that White patients. Doctors are less likely to do breast cancer screening for Hispanic women that for White women. Non-White pneumonia patients are seen less in hospitals that Whites, and finally, poor urban blacks and Hispanic neighborhoods have about 24 physicians per 100.000 compared to 69 physicians per 100.000 for poor white communities(Vernellia R.Randall, pg 1-8). It would appear that the cost of health care insurance is being driven up by the ones who are in line first and can afford it. The portion of the population that don't have access to adequate health care that provides the use of the most advanced technology in the world can't possibly be the cost drivers. Anedra Thomas CSULB 10/28/07 2:52 PM

Lastly, health experts state costs are also skyrocketing because the US health care system is fragmented, with thousands of insurers, hospital groups, physicians groups, benefit administrators, medical equipment providers, and drug makers all trying to get the biggest cut of the health care dollar they can. In my opinion, WE should be more concerned with the fact that the first "Baby Boomer" filed for Social Security, "in what's being called America's "silver tsunami," ,Rutherford, NBC News. More alarming is that 10,000 Americans A DAY will become eligible for Social Security benefits over the next 20 years! If you think our system is in dire straights now, you have not seen anything yet. Come on people, Americans are known for innovation, let's work for universal health care for a healthier nation. Frank Hernandez (Part 2) CSULB 10/30/07 1:57 PM